Health & Safety

Stanton Shanedling: Hello, everybody! Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's show is on health and safety. And, boy, after reading our background research, there are a lot of safety issues that I had forgotten about. But we'll dive into them today with our crew.

We have a wonderful background crew that helps us with all of our shows: Maddie Levine, Wolf, Erin Collins, Deandra Howard, Matthew Campbell, and Sheridan Nygaard. They do wonderful research, they handle our recordings, and get those shows out to you, the listening audience. So thank you to all of you. It’s a pleasure working with you.

In addition, Dr. Barry Baines is with us today. He’s our medical advisor and provides some medical insight and perspective. Thanks, Barry, for being on the show today. Of course, there’s Clarence Jones, who co-hosts the show with me. We’re finding that a lot of the shows are very interesting, and we’re learning a lot together. So, Clarence, as always, thank you.

Human Partnership is our sponsor for these shows, a great community health organization. Check them out at humanpartnership.org. And check us out at healthchatterpodcast.com. All the research and questions you might have or reviews are all on our website, and you can also read up about everyone who contributes to the show. Thanks again to everyone.

So, health and safety. When I read through our background research, one of the key things around health and safety centers around OSHA, which stands for the Occupational Safety and Health Administration. It didn’t really start that long ago—around 1970—and it was focused on safety in the workplace. If you broaden your perspective about work in general, and think about where people work in the United States, there are safety concerns that need to be addressed to hopefully prevent harm.

Historically, we were dealing with mine safety and farming accidents. As we get more sophisticated with technology, there are aspects of work we need to address from a safety perspective. Thoughts on that, Barry?

Barry Baines: Well, basically, that's one of the areas of health and safety where there’s a structure in place. There are governmental departments that address those kinds of things. Certainly, things like mines, construction safety, and the like. When you look at where a lot of accidents and mortality come from, it’s in these dangerous occupations. You have government regulation and intervention for workplace health and safety concerns, and there is a navigational path for responsibility in the workplace.

When we get into personal health and safety issues, the onus falls more on individuals and families. That’s where it becomes different. The research for this episode is amazing. The facts and areas for exploration could really make your head spin. But these are all things—whether in mines, at home, or in the office—that we can do to mitigate unexpected harm.

Stanton Shanedling: Our research covers occupational safety, home safety, road safety, and firearm safety—just touching the surface. Clarence, your thoughts to get us started?

Clarence Jones: You know, it’s kind of interesting. 1970 was when I first became aware of OSHA. I remember during that time there was a lot of concern about coal mines, like black lung. And asbestos was a big issue. People were using asbestos without realizing how much it was scarring their lungs. I wasn’t directly involved in these industries, but I understood the importance of a governmental agency like OSHA.

Stanton Shanedling: Absolutely. You almost have to be totally unaware not to see the potential dangers around you. In the Twin Cities metropolitan area, when you drive through road construction zones, you can’t help but think, "Wow, these workers are in dangerous situations." It’s a reminder of the potential dangers involved in infrastructure improvements. I’m sure OSHA is on top of it.

Clarence Jones: And this is a public health issue too. Sometimes we don’t see the interconnection, but the work being done impacts our public health as well.

Stanton Shanedling: Exactly. From an occupational standpoint, OSHA deals with the Big Four safety concerns: falls, being struck by an object, electrocutions, and being caught in or between machinery. For example, workers on high-rise buildings are at risk of falls. Struck-by injuries can occur from scaffolding or equipment. Electrocutions are another concern, and employees can also be caught in or between machines, leading to serious injury or death. With our increasing technological sophistication, these issues are becoming even more complex.

Barry Baines: I want to highlight the falls issue. Over 36% of all deaths in the workplace come from falls, and it’s a significant cause of death for the elderly and for children, too. There’s a program called “Kids Can’t Fly” focused on preventing children from falling out of windows. Falls are a concern across the entire spectrum of health and safety.

Stanton Shanedling: That’s a good point. When we think about falls at home, we often overlook simple things like rugs or grab bars in showers. When do we start thinking about safety in these contexts?

Clarence Jones: You know, I can relate. In my personal life, I’ve known people who lost fingers or fell off banisters. We often don’t realize how important safety is until it affects us personally. The government’s role in this is crucial, and when you get older, you start thinking more about these safety issues.

Stanton Shanedling: Right. As we get older, we become more aware of these dangers. Safety measures need to be in place in certain environments, especially where there’s an older population. OSHA plays an important role in this.

Stanton Shanedling: You know, and also, like in the workplace, there are subtle things I remember from the Department of Health. We had employees that did ergonomic assessments. When you're working, for instance, seated at a desk, is the desk at the right height? Is your computer screen placed properly? These subtle things can really impact a person’s health. And then also, the work being done can be compromised if people are unhealthy. There are major economic effects as well.

Barry Baines: I think, Stan, if I could also weigh in, building on what you said, the workplace has changed a lot. When we think of work safety, we tend to focus on disastrous things—falling off buildings, getting electrocuted, or being struck by a falling hammer. But the ergonomic thing is something we're seeing more and more. Not only because people are using computers more, but we also have issues like carpal tunnel and other problems from keyboarding. Also, the amount of sitting people do is significant. I don’t have the statistics, but I think sitting for long hours is equivalent to smoking a pack of cigarettes a day in terms of mortality. If you don’t get up every hour to walk around, just sitting too much is a real health issue. This impacts work as well. People experience hand strain, neck strain, but it’s not thought of in the same way as falling off buildings.

Stanton Shanedling: It's interesting too when you consider the implications of sitting at a desk staring at a screen. What does it mean for your vision, for your body—things like carpal tunnel syndrome? These are subtle things, but nonetheless part of safety.

Stanton Shanedling: Alright, let’s move into home safety. I think this is an interesting one. I can really state that I remember growing up as a kid and our doors were unlocked. My friends and I would run in and out of the houses like it was no big deal. But now, we’ve reached a different level of safety. Clarence, what are your thoughts on this? We've really gotten to a point where things like burglar alarms and deadbolt locks are necessary.

Clarence: I agree with you, Stan. I remember growing up too when we didn’t even lock our doors at night. You knew your neighbors and felt safe. But our world has changed, and we've had to make adjustments for personal safety. Especially as you get older, you’re protecting your family and your property. There’s an importance in that, and I think we have a much better idea of how to be safe today. With the data we have, we know the importance of safety. Of course, we’ve also had to adjust to the laws that now prevent things like drag racing down the street.

Stanton Shanedling: And there’s also a cost involved with all this. Not everyone can afford security systems or double-bolted locks. Even with those in place, technology comes into play. Who understands the importance of home safety and burglar alarms? How do you monitor them through an app? Some people are just illiterate when it comes to dealing with that technology. And there are people living alone, which brings another set of safety concerns.

Clarence: Technology has developed to address some of these issues. For example, whenever someone approaches my house, my ring doorbell buzzes me. It lets me know there’s someone at the front door, even if I’m not home. It’s one of those things that, because of the world we live in, has made us more sensitive to safety. When we were younger, we didn’t think about these things because they weren’t as noticeable. Today, every time you turn on the news, there’s a concern about safety, so you get sensitized to it. But there are just things we have to do now that we didn’t used to have to.

Stanton Shanedling: Exactly, we didn’t think about it before, but it’s been brought to our attention, which is good. But there are other safety measures in homes that are important, like fire detectors and carbon monoxide detectors. These didn’t exist years ago, and now it’s crucial to keep them up to date—changing batteries and making sure they’re functional.

Clarence: Yeah.

Stanton Shanedling: These are good measures, but they were implemented because of things that happened and could have been prevented.

Clarence: I was going to ask a question. I think for those who are less seasoned—like the younger generation—how do you feel about all these conversations around safety? It’s a different kind of world for most of you. What are your thoughts on the issue of safety and health?

Health Chatter: I can pop in quick, and then Maddie, if you want to chime in too. I did the research for this episode, so I definitely have more understanding about safety than I did before. I think, as a society in the U.S., we’re not as risk-averse as other countries. In places with public healthcare, there’s a financial incentive to keep people safe and healthy, so they don’t have to pay for accidents later. In the U.S., because of our system, we’re responsible for our own health insurance, and that pushes the responsibility onto individuals. As a society, we tend to be more individualistic, and that responsibility falls on each person. Also, safety really depends on the family, person, and household. Making a home safe for a 90-year-old is different than for a 3-year-old. Cultural factors also play a role. So, it really depends on where you are in the world, who you are, and what you want to keep safe.

Stanton Shanedling: Yeah, and there are cultural factors as well. For instance, in Israel, where I have relatives, every house has a “safe room.” This has become necessary due to security issues and past wars, with rooms that are highly protected from invasions. Safety, in this case, is driven by very specific circumstances.

Stanton Shanedling: Sheridan, you brought up a good point about the difference between young people and the elderly in a home. For example, when I was growing up, we didn’t put protectors on electrical outlets. Did you, Clarence?

Clarence: No, I didn’t.

Stanton Shanedling: I didn’t either. I don’t think we were wise enough back then. People just said not to stick things in the outlets, but now, the risk of a child being hurt by something that could be so easily prevented is something that’s taken seriously today.

Barry Baines: When you're seeing patients, it's important to make sure that safety is prioritized. It's also crucial to have conversations about it and provide excellent handouts, which are now available in different languages for people whose primary language isn't English. Many of these safety issues are easy to address if you’re aware of them, but if you don’t know, it becomes a problem. In my practice, I've seen avoidable tragedies, and being proactive is key. From a public health perspective, it's important to address these issues, especially in environments like substandard housing that make things even more dangerous. It's part of the larger picture, but still an important piece to focus on.

Stanton Shanedling: It’s interesting, Barry, you’re probably aware of this, but when I go for a physical, my physician or a nurse will ask me, “Do you feel safe at home?” The word "safe" really needs clarification. What do they mean by safe? Am I safe because there are grab bars in the shower? Or is it because there’s no lead-based paint in the house? Safety encompasses a lot of different things, and those questions are important to consider.

Stanton Shanedling: I think of little things like the warnings on plastic bags at the grocery store, reminding us to keep them away from children because they’re a choking hazard. These kinds of reminders raise our awareness of safety overall.

Maddy Levine-Wolf: Yeah, I feel like I’m just taking everything in right now, but I’ll probably have more thoughts at the end.

Stanton Shanedling: Let me ask you, Maddy—since you live in an apartment—what are you aware of in your apartment complex regarding safety?

Maddy Levine-Wolf: One thing I’m very conscious of is carbon monoxide. You can’t smell it, but you have a detector to warn you. Sometimes, when I go to sleep, I worry that the detector might be broken, and there could be a leak I wouldn’t know about. I’m also cautious about the appliances in my kitchen because they’re old. I lived in Philadelphia for a few years after college, and my roommates and I used to joke that the appliances could catch fire at any time. Then, a couple of years later, the building caught on fire due to one of those old appliances. It didn’t burn down, but there was severe fire damage. Now, I’m constantly checking that I haven’t left the oven, stove, or toaster on.

Stanton Shanedling: Barry, you mentioned firearm safety and car safety. Let’s talk about firearm safety first, since it’s more directly connected to the home. What are your thoughts on that?

Barry Baines: We have an epidemic of gun ownership, and unfortunately, the leading cause of death for children is firearms. The good news is that many accidents can be prevented with the proper precautions. I’m not talking about gun violence in the streets, but in the home. Many tragic accidents happen when children find loaded guns. There are simple steps to mitigate this, like using gun locks, keeping ammunition separate from the guns, and storing firearms securely. Of course, people argue that if the gun is locked, they can’t protect themselves, but the reality is that children are curious and accidents happen. Firearm deaths are now the leading cause of death in kids, something I didn’t expect. It's hard to believe that guns are responsible for more deaths than car accidents, but it’s true. The basic rules of gun safety aren’t complicated and can keep families safe at home.

iPhone (2)clarence: I really like what you’re saying, Barry. I've heard stories of kids as young as 12 accidentally shooting their brother or another relative because adults weren’t aware of the dangers. We often think about our own safety, but we also have to think about our kids' safety. They see guns as toys, and that can lead to tragedy.

Stanton Shanedling: I grew up with squirt guns, and there’s definitely been a shift in attitudes toward guns. Some families no longer allow toy guns at all. It’s interesting how attitudes toward firearm safety have evolved.

Maddy Levine-Wolf: My parents were very strict about violent video games and toy guns when we were growing up. They used to cut the guns off of the little plastic soldiers. But, of course, when my brother went to his friends' houses, he’d still play games like Call of Duty. It’s hard to control what kids are exposed to outside the home, even if you maintain strict standards at home.

Stanton Shanedling: It's tricky. How much is too much? Should a kid be able to play with a nerf gun under proper supervision? These are tough questions. But we’ve certainly seen a shift in how we think about firearm safety.

Stanton Shanedling: On another note, Barry, you mentioned grab bars. I’ll admit, we don’t have them in our shower, even though I know we should. It's one of those things you don’t think about until it’s too late.

Barry Baines: And I think part of it is understanding the environment. You're in a shower, or sometimes bathtubs can be even worse than a stand-up shower. If you take a shower and you have a bathtub, just think about it: soap plus water.

Stanton Shanedling: Slippery.

Barry Baines: Exactly, slippery.

Stanton Shanedling: I know.

Barry Baines: I don’t know any bathtubs or walls in the bathroom that are soft. It's almost like an accident waiting to happen. But that's why, even without grab bars, at least maybe have one of those suction mats or something that provides a little more stability when you’re standing.

Stanton Shanedling: Yeah, yeah, it’s about safety.

Stanton Shanedling: Alright. So, remember the days when there were no seat belts in cars? There were no child restraint seats, no sophisticated safety components in cars.

Barry Baines: I remember that.

Stanton Shanedling: So, about six months ago, I took a senior drivers’ ed class. My first thought was, "What don't I already know?" But it was really interesting because they go over all these new safety features on cars that you should take advantage of to be safer when driving. I recommend anyone at that age to take these courses because it opens your eyes to things that will help.

Stanton Shanedling: It took a long time to get seat belts legislated, and before seat belts, we had child restraint seats. It all led to the safety laws we have now. Anyway, thoughts on car safety?

Barry Baines: When I started driving, my dad had a 1963 car, which didn’t have seat belts yet. But in 1963, the government mandated that cars have mounts for seat belts. I was ahead of the curve—one of the first things I did when I started driving in ’66 was to buy some seat belts.

Barry Baines: Seat belts that aren't used are useless. If you don’t wear them and crash at 40 miles an hour, you could fly into the steering wheel or through the windshield. It's a very different situation now with airbags, but you need to wear your seat belt to benefit from them. People walk away from crashes today that would have been deadly or left them severely injured just a few years ago.

Barry Baines: In other countries, like Great Britain and Australia, they use very graphic public service announcements to show the consequences of not wearing seat belts, and it’s made a big difference in seat belt use. In the U.S., we tend to downplay what happens when people don’t use seat belts. Sometimes being more realistic about what happens could help people take safety more seriously.

Barry Baines: The flip side is that cars are getting safer with airbags, but again, you need to wear your seat belt. The quality of life for those who survive crashes today is much better than it would have been in the past, but it’s still a tough road back.

Stanton Shanedling: Absolutely, safety is key.

Health Chatter: I agree, Barry. It’s impressive how much cars are prioritizing safety now. But, as for the roads, I think they’ve gotten more dangerous since the pandemic, with people speeding and not following basic safety protocols.

Health Chatter: I don't currently drive, but I do drive university vehicles for work, and as a pedestrian, I feel exposed. I’ve been hit by a car twice this year alone, and even while biking, I’ve been hit by a car. It’s risky to travel eco-friendly, but safer infrastructure for walking, biking, and public transit is really needed.

Stanton Shanedling: You bring up a good point about bike helmets. Years ago, no one wore them, but now it's essential. It's the same with airplanes—you’re required by law to buckle up.

Stanton Shanedling: So, my closing comment is: be smart about safety, no matter the environment—whether it’s your home, work, or on the road. Think about what safety measures you might be missing and take proactive steps to implement them.

iPhone (2)clarence: I think you hit the nail on the head, Stan. The addition of bike lanes is a major improvement in safety.

Barry Baines: I agree with Stan. Understand the biggest risks and take action. You don’t have to make your whole home a fortress, but start somewhere. There are community resources available for safety measures, like free car seats for kids or outlet safety plugs. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Maddy Levine-Wolf: That reminds me of our fake news episode. It’s about finding a balance between what safety measures are within your control and not being overwhelmed by all the risks out there. It’s important to think about safety, but also to live your life and not be paralyzed by fear.

Maddy Levine-Wolf: Also, surround yourself with people who value safety. It’s important to have a support system that values not just your safety but their own as well.

Health Chatter: I love that, Maddy. I agree—being mindful of your safety and the safety of others is key. Make sure you take the necessary steps to keep yourself and others safe, whether you’re at work, at home, or on the road. It’s all about staying aware and proactive.

Stanton Shanedling: Absolutely. Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts today.