Organ Donation with LifeSource

Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's episode is on organ donation, (0:09) which should be really, really quite interesting.

Organ donation has a long history and hopefully has some very, very positive implications. So we've got two great guests with us. We'll get to them in a moment.

We've got a great crew that always keeps us hopping with great research. We have three researchers, Maddy Levine-Wolfe, Erin Collins, Deondra Howard, and also  Sheridan Nygard. Sheridan does marketing and research for us and is actually recording today's show.

So thank you to them. Matthew Campbell is our production manager that gets (0:45) the shows out to you, the listening audience. So this is a crew second to none.

Also on today's show is Dr. Barry Baines, our medical advisor. Welcome, Barry. And of course, there's Clarence Jones, my co-host for the show.

He and I are great colleagues and we're really appreciating  all the chats that we do with all of our great guests over, goodness, it's almost over two years  now. Human Partnership is our sponsor for these shows. They are a community health organization, does wonderful things in the community around various issues related to health.

Check them out, (1:27) huemanpartnership.org. You can check us out at healthchatterpodcast.com. I'm Stan Shandling, (1:36) the other co-host for the show, and I thank you all for being with us today. Clarence, take it away. (1:45) Hello, everybody.

This is Clarence Jones, and I am excited to talk about the show today. We're (1:50) going to be talking about organ and tissue donation. And we have two wonderful guests, (1:55) Ms. Susan Mao-Larson.

I'm just going to give a high level introduction to them because they're (1:59) going to talk a lot about themselves and about their work. And I just want to quickly get to (2:04) that. Susan has both a undergrad and a master's degree from the University of Minnesota.

She has (2:10) a chief administrative office for the organization LifeSource, which is the organ and tissue donation (2:15) in the upper Midwest. And then we have Ms. Nicole Salaam, who is the director of equity division (2:21) of diversity and inclusion at LifeSource. And that's kind of the high level piece that they're (2:27) going to share more about themselves throughout the program.

I've had the honor of working with (2:33) LifeSource for more than, and I always joke about this, two centuries. I've known them in the 20th (2:37) and the 21st century, but they are, without a shadow of a doubt, one of the best community (2:43) organizations that I've worked with. And so we are honored that we're able to talk about this (2:47) very, very important topic.

And so with that, Stan, I'm going to let you go ahead with the (2:53) first question, because this is a topic that I think that all of our partners are really, (2:57) really interested in participating in. Thanks, Clarence. So first and foremost, (3:05) either Nicole or Susan, either one of you chime in.

Why don't you tell us a little bit about (3:10) LifeSource to start with from a programmatic side of things, and then we'll get... (3:35) Uh-oh. No, I think that was Stan there. Okay, I think we're back.

(3:38) All right. Got it. Well, tell us about LifeSource.

(3:42) Let me write down that time and I'll tell Matt when to cut this out. (3:46) Okay. Sounds good.

Nicole, you have to get off of... There we go. All right. (3:53) I'm here.

(3:55) Tell us about LifeSource. (4:00) Do you want to take that one? (4:01) Sure. I'm happy to take that.

Thank you for asking. This is Susan Mollarson. I'm just so (4:06) excited to be here with you today and talk about this topic.

So LifeSource is the organization (4:12) that is responsible for management of organ and tissue donation in actually Minnesota, (4:17) North Dakota, and South Dakota. So if you think about LifeSource, we are the people behind the (4:24) donor on your driver's license. So when somebody says yes to donation, it is our privilege to work (4:30) with that individual and their family to facilitate the donation process and make sure (4:35) the organs and tissues that they generously give to others are received by those in need.

(4:42) And we are a little bit more... We are actually based in North Minneapolis. Like I said, (4:46) we cover those three areas, but our headquarters is in North Minneapolis. (4:50) So let me ask you, is there... Do you have complementary organizations (4:55) around the country such as LifeSource in different states? (4:59) Yes, we do.

That's a great question. There are 56 organ procurement organizations in the country. So (5:05) the federal government designates our service area.

It's important to note we're not a government (5:10) agency. Of course, like all healthcare, we're heavily regulated by the government, (5:15) but we each cover a designated service area so that we don't compete. (5:19) We collaborate with each other closely, but we do not compete.

(5:23) Sounds great. Clarence? Yeah. So Susan and Nicole, (5:28) we talk a lot about, or we hear a lot about organ donation.

Can you talk about what is the need for (5:33) organ donation? People don't necessarily have, many times, a real clear idea about how important (5:40) this particular topic is. Yep. Thank you.

It's really important. (5:47) There are about 3,000 people in our three states alone that are waiting for a lifesaving organ (5:52) transplant, a little bit more than 100,000 in the country. Organ transplantation is so unique (5:58) in healthcare because it is the one area that doctors, surgeons, nurses, whomever it is, (6:05) the care team, cannot actually help those who are suffering from organ failure without individuals (6:10) who generously say yes to donation.

So the need is absolutely critical. In Minnesota, 56% of (6:17) Minnesotans have registered as donors. So we're a very generous state, (6:21) and we also need to really work to increase the number of people who support donation.

(6:28) So tell me, historically, when you really go back in time, is there like an organ that really kind (6:39) of started this whole process of organ transplantation, organ donation? Historically, (6:48) for me, it seems like kidney was the first out of the gate, but I might be totally wrong. (6:55) So what can you tell us about the history? That's a great question. I'd love to answer (7:01) that.

And I don't want to take over for Nicole, but I love the history. So the first successful (7:08) human organ transplant was in 1956. And that was, you're exactly right, kidney.

And even today, (7:15) of the 100,000 people waiting for a transplant, the majority are waiting for kidneys. So it really (7:21) started with kidneys and then developed. The first successful human heart transplant was in 1967.

(7:27) So if you really think about donation and transplantation and all the developments in (7:33) science and medicine, it's a relatively short time in our human history that this has developed (7:38) and become so successful. Yeah. And where did it start? Was there a place that it started? (7:48) Like, or was it kind of in various places around the United States? (7:53) You know, that's a really good question.

I think the first kidney transplant was in Pennsylvania. (8:00) What I will say is both Hennepin Healthcare in Minnesota and the University of Minnesota were (8:06) really pioneers in transplant. And I think the University of Minnesota actually did the first (8:11) pancreas transplant ever.

So they were pioneers right out of the gate. Of course, I'm a proud (8:15) Gopher alum and proud of the work that the university has done in transplant. Yeah.

(8:21) Clarence. Yeah. So Nicole, let me ask you this question.

You are the Director of Equity, (8:27) Diversity and Inclusion. Can you talk about how does that (8:31) fit into this whole issue around organ and tissue donation? (8:37) Sure. Yeah.

So thanks, Clarence. So Susan had mentioned that Minnesota is a really generous (8:44) state. We've got about 56% of Minnesotans are registered as organ donors on their driver's (8:53) license or state ID.

Wow. 60% of the almost 106,000 people on the national waiting list (9:03) are from communities of color. And so when we look at in Minnesota right now, there's about (9:13) 805 people on the transplant waiting list.

And so when we think about donation (9:18) in many communities of color, we see high incidences of kidney disease, people who are (9:25) in need of kidney transplant. And so where we bring in the lens of diversity, equity and inclusion is (9:32) understanding that while we have a really high need, there are not people that are registered (9:40) as donors in those communities. And so we see that there is a significant need to really educate and (9:47) inform people about the donation process, which is, as we talk about, very nuanced, (9:52) very sophisticated.

And then also just addressing reasons why people may not register to donate (10:01) due to things like medical mistrust. And really just hearing what people's lived experiences are (10:10) with the healthcare industry. So doing our work through an equity lens is really essential because (10:18) we're able to work with members of diverse communities in a different nuanced way as well.

(10:26) So for our listening audience, let's try to visualize a little bit the process. So let's just (10:36) say I need a kidney. Okay.

And assuming that I'm on the list, which is another question, (10:50) how does one get on a list and who do you contact in order to get on a list was part of the process. (10:57) But then all of a sudden, I'm really in need. What happened? (11:06) Yeah.

I will take that and walk through that on the donation side. So you're right. Yeah.

(11:11) Two parallel tracks waiting for transplant and donation. So what happens on the donation side (11:18) is that all the hospitals in our service area call life source when someone has died or when there's (11:25) an imminent death in their hospital. And then we work very closely with the hospital and with the (11:30) family to make donation happen.

We work with the team to do the evaluation to see, are they (11:36) a potential donor, which actually only a small percent of people can donate at the time of their (11:41) death. Then we see if we're the ones who checked, did they register as a donor? We, if not, we ask (11:47) the family, do you want donation to happen? And then we manage the whole clinical process up to (11:54) the surgical recovery of the organs. That includes working with the national organization who has (12:00) the database of everybody waiting for a transplant.

So we will contact them and say, (12:05) we have this potential donor that we're caring for, here's their blood type, all the criteria, (12:11) and they will tell us who the appropriate recipient is based on a set of criteria, geography, (12:17) how sick they are, obviously has to be a medical match. And then we make sure the organ is (12:23) transported to that transplant center where the person's waiting. (12:28) And so let's just say that there's somebody that can donate here in Minnesota.

There's (12:36) somehow a link that's made on where somebody could use, let's say in this case, a kidney. (12:45) Then what happens? Okay, so the kidney is taken out. And then what happens? How is it transported (12:58) from A to B? Absolutely.

So again, we're in the hospital, our team working with the family, (13:05) supporting family and the care team, making sure that the organs are recovered, either by the (13:11) transplanting surgeon, or actually, we have our own surgeon who recovers kidneys for us. (13:16) And then our team, make sure it's packaged carefully in ice. And you know, this is the (13:23) part you kind of see in the movies, now it went in a cooler.

And then it's either driven or flown (13:28) to the transplant center. So you know, if we are taking care of a donor, say at Regions, (13:34) but the recipient is at Mayo Clinic, then we'll make sure it's driven to Rochester. If the (13:39) recipient's in Chicago, for example, we'll make sure it gets on a plane and gets to them there.

(13:44) Okay, and then is that considered high priority for transport? (13:51) Yes. And if like, if it's a heart, it will go by charter flight. (13:56) Oh, okay.

(13:57) Kidney has a little bit more time to be transported. But yes, we have to make sure that they're (14:02) received in the time. Actually, we had an interesting story.

Two years ago, we had a (14:08) donor in Minneapolis and a recipient in Bismarck and we had a snowstorm. And our driver got all (14:14) the way to North Dakota and all the highways were blocked. And I'm not kidding, but the (14:19) North Dakota State Patrol came out and escorted them all the way to Bismarck so that the (14:25) Wonderful, wonderful.

Great. Great. Barry.

(14:29) Yeah. So on, you know, on this same list, we have Minnesota, North and South Dakota. (14:36) I had a friend who actually was a recipient of a kidney transplant.

He lived in New York. (14:43) And could you just tell us a little bit if you know, is it a state registry where priorities (14:51) are concerned? Because I sort of recall that the waiting list in New York was like two years and (14:56) that he was sort of shopping around for other states where he might be able to get on a list (15:03) that was a bit shorter. Can you just talk a little bit about how that priority piece of (15:10) things work and state registries? Absolutely.

So when somebody needs a transplant, (15:16) they're all in one registry through the United Network for Organ Sharing. Sometimes we think (15:21) of the waiting list, but it's a database of everybody. But then when organs are allocated, (15:26) geography comes into play.

So if you think of a high population area like New York, (15:31) there's probably more people waiting. There may be more donors, but there are more people waiting. (15:37) And so that's why some people say, you know, I might be better off waiting in Chicago, (15:41) for example, because when organs are allocated, they actually go out like a target first 100 (15:47) miles.

And if there's no recipient, then we go 200 miles. And so geography really does matter. (15:54) Clarence.

Yeah. So Susan or Nicole, someone or family agrees to donation. (16:00) Oh, will you tell us what is the impact of that donation? What does it mean? (16:07) Yeah.

Nicole, do you want to take that? Sorry, I was having some sound issues here. (16:16) My apologies. And hopefully I won't.

I won't. (16:24) You want me to repeat it again? Get caught off again. Yeah.

Could you? Sorry about that. (16:28) Okay. Okay.

Okay. Someone or family agrees to donation. What is the impact of that donation? (16:36) Well, I would I would say first that the need is way higher than what is available.

And so (16:46) when we have people that register to donate, we know that one person we say this all the time, (16:54) particularly when we're out and educating people about the donation process, (16:58) one person can save up to 75 lives. And so if we calculate that, that's, that's a lot of lives (17:05) saved once we have people who register to to donate. So there's, you know, in terms of organs (17:12) that can be donated, we also know that musculoskeletal tissue can also be donated.

(17:19) And so it's really important when we're talking with people to inspire them to be donors for those (17:25) reasons. So let's talk about registering, because, you know, you know, Minnesota might be an anomaly (17:36) here, because, you know, we're, we're pretty good. But how is it that, you know, across the country? (17:42) Is it the same way for people to register to be a donor? Is it via your driver's license? How, (17:51) how is it? Or is it all over the place? Yeah.

Thank you for that question. That's a great (17:57) question. So generally, it's the same, like we said, Minnesota's high 56% of people in the country, (18:02) it's probably 45, maybe.

Every state has the opportunity to register on your driver's license (18:09) or state ID. Okay. What I will share is we've really been working hard to find other avenues.

(18:16) So anyone in the country can register online, there's opportunities to just go to an online (18:23) website and register. Minnesota was the first state in the country to add donor registration to (18:29) hunting and fishing licenses. So in Minnesota, if you're going to fish, you can register.

(18:34) We've worked and Nicole's worked a lot with two tribes in North Dakota, one of which was the first (18:39) tribal nation to add donor registration to tribal IDs. And I will tell you in Michigan, (18:45) they just added donor registration, I think to their tax forms. Oh, interesting.

So around the (18:52) country, everybody's trying to find more ways to make registration as easy as possible. But the (18:56) driver's license is the most common way. Great.

Great. So let me, there's a couple of other (19:03) things that kind of come into my mind. Recently, in the news, there was a transplant, a pig, (19:13) I forgot which organ it was, it might have been a kidney, maybe you guys are aware of this, (19:19) in a human.

And so what, how is it that you link with animal donations to humans? (19:30) Apparently, this patient was just discharged. It might have been a it might have been a heart (19:40) transplant. I don't I can't recall.

But how is it that life source and complementary organizations (19:48) around the country link with organs from animals that could be used in humans? Yeah. (19:57) Thank you. I'll take that.

And then Nicole can add on. And actually, I believe (20:01) a heart and a kidney have been transplanted from okay, okay, you know, transplantation, (20:07) life source actually doesn't do anything directly with that. So that transplant centers.

It is a (20:14) indication of how science and medicine is continuing to advance to meet the need of (20:20) transplantation. And ironically, maybe your medical advisor knows this better than I do. (20:25) My understanding is that pigs are a little closer to human genetics than say primates, (20:30) which is what we might typically think of.

So there's a lot of development. I know the University (20:35) of Minnesota has looked at some of that, although they weren't the ones who did these transplants. So (20:39) it's really exciting to see that, I think, because the need for transplant is great.

And so anything (20:46) we can do to to help those people is important. And and porcine or pig heart valves have been used (20:52) in medicine for valve replacement for, you know, for a while, certainly before the technology of, (21:02) you know, pretty artificial artificial valves. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So Susan, I want to call and (21:08) answer this question. We have all these people that have signed up for to be organ donors, (21:13) but a lot of them don't are not necessarily meeting the specific medical qualification (21:20) to be an organ donor.

You talk a little bit more about that. Yes, I can. When somebody (21:28) dies in order to donate their organs, they actually need to die in a hospital on a ventilator (21:33) because the ventilator keeps the blood and oxygen perfusing keeps the organs healthy.

(21:38) That is really less than 1% of people. However, if you don't die in a hospital or don't die in (21:46) a ventilator, that's when the gifts of tissue and I donation are so important. And so somebody can (21:53) restore site, restore mobility for somebody in need.

So those are really important gifts. And (21:58) that's where Nicole talked about. We can save up to 75 lives.

That's through all those gifts (22:03) of organ tissue and I donation. Let me do a follow up. Let me do a follow up question real (22:09) quick.

Yeah, yeah. You know, when we talk about organ donation, you know, a lot of people agree (22:16) to it. But only 58% or so are actually registered to do this.

What are some of the reasons why people (22:26) would they might agree to it, but they don't necessarily actually sign up to become an organ (22:32) donor? I mean, what are the myths? What are some of the myths that that you come up with? Because (22:35) I know that we need more people to do this. But there seem to be some struggles with people (22:41) actually putting their name on the bottom line. (22:45) Then I can I can certainly take that one.

And then if you have anything to add to that. (22:50) So, so earlier I mentioned, we often hear from communities, marginalized communities, (22:59) who have limited knowledge of the donation process. So when we think about the, the, you know, (23:06) health and wellness and health care in general, donation is not necessarily something that is well (23:12) understood.

And so having that knowledge, having access to understanding the donation process is (23:18) really, really key. I also talked about medical mistrust, which is very visceral for some folks, (23:26) given experiences that they themselves have had, or family members have had, (23:30) thus just not trusting the process and that, as Susan mentioned, in order for someone to be a (23:38) donor, people have to be ventilated. And so the idea sometimes is that, well, if I'm a registered (23:47) donor, medical personnel will not work as hard to save my life.

So that is, that's one of the myths (23:55) that's, that's out there. We also find that there are numerous cultural reasons why people don't (24:01) donate. So we often hear from various cultures that we want our loved one to be whole when they pass (24:10) or they transition.

And so people may be a little less, you know, a little averse to, (24:17) to actually authorizing for their loved one to be a donor. And then I think there's just, (24:24) those are primarily the reasons that we hear. I would say again, that just because donation (24:29) is such a nuanced process, organ procurement organizations are the ones who manage that (24:36) process.

And there'll be work with our hospitals and partner with our hospitals, (24:40) DMV transplant centers. It's such a unique niche industry that is oftentimes just not (24:47) very well understood. Susan, I don't know if you'd like to add anything to that.

(24:52) Actually, I think that was beautifully stated, Nicole. Thank you. (24:57) So let me ask, is there like an average age for a donor? In other words, let's just say for our (25:05) use myself as an art, let's say I'm 80 years old, which I'm not yet.

But would that automatically (25:15) eliminate me as, as a donor? Is there a particular age that you have to be or for an organ to be (25:27) in order for it to be donated? No. So what I would say is at the time of donation, (25:34) we really evaluate the health of each organ. We have seen organ donors in their nineties, (25:41) maybe not heart, but liver.

And sadly, we've also seen infants who were donors. And so what (25:49) we like to share is if donation is important to you and something you want to happen, (25:54) make those wishes known, register, talk to your family. And then at the time, (25:58) the healthcare team will really look closely.

Yeah, Barry. (26:04) Kind of, yeah, kind of building on this with the donations. This focus is mostly on agreeing to be (26:10) an organ donor.

And then typically you say you have to be on a ventilator and it's an in-hospital (26:15) death. Could, what is your interface with live donation? Obviously this would have to be with (26:20) a paired organ, you know, like, like a kidney, like you're not going to donate your heart if (26:26) you only have one of them. How does Lifeforce Center interface with people who are interested (26:34) in being live donors? Yeah.

Great question. We actually don't directly get really involved in (26:42) live donation. Sometimes we work in support of our transplant centers, but it really is (26:47) the transplant centers are doing it.

So the University of Minnesota Mayo Clinic, if somebody (26:51) wants to donate an organ to a loved one, a neighbor, or just donate it, they would manage (26:58) that whole process directly. Great. Thanks.

I will, I will just add to that, that we, (27:05) that's a question we oftentimes get in the communities that we are engaging with about (27:12) living donation. And as Susan mentioned, we, we do not manage that process. That's the transplant (27:16) centers that do that.

But it is a way, I think of engaging people in the conversation about (27:23) donation. If there is an opportunity that someone might have to be a living donor to a loved one (27:30) or a friend, it's, it's a, it's, it's a good way to open the door to having, having that dialogue. (27:37) Mm-hmm.

You know, you kind of alluded to the idea of culture. (27:47) If you ever run into the problem, okay, you know, a pig kidney or a pig heart, (27:56) and there's a need for it being transplanted into a very religious person, (28:05) a religious Jew, for instance. Any, is there any, any cultural issues such as that, (28:14) that run into organ donation? Generally not.

I'm not aware of that. (28:24) The cultural component often comes into play, as I, as I mentioned earlier, (28:31) if people want the body to be whole, (28:37) you know, if, if tissue donation comes into play too, there's maybe a little bit more concern around (28:41) that, but that is not something that I'm aware of. Susan, I don't know if you've, in the 20 years (28:48) you've been with LifeSource, if you've run into that at all.

I haven't. And, you know, I think, (28:54) as we said, the, the transplant from pigs is so new. So if that develops, I suspect we'll hear (29:00) more.

And Nicole, as she mentioned, just the cultural aspect on the donation side, she does (29:06) such a nice job really supporting our teams and working with them to support families in the (29:10) hospital. That's where we see that. Yeah. Yeah. Clarence. So how is organ donation handled around (29:19) the world? I mean, we talk a little bit about what's happening here in Minnesota and the United (29:24) States, but how is this perceived around the world? Yeah, I can take that. That's a great (29:31) question. So as you can imagine, every country in the world has different donation processes (29:37) and systems, just like we all have different governments and different social systems. (29:42) So what the first thing I'd like to share, it's really important to note as the United States (29:47) has the highest donation rate in the world. Or last year we had the second highest donation rate (29:54) to Spain. So it's a little bit some years, Spain is the highest some years of the United States

SusanML: different donation processes and systems, just like we all have different governments and different social systems. So what the first thing I'd like to share it's really important to note, as the United States has the highest donation rate in the world. Or last year we had the second highest donation rate to Spain, so it's a little bit some year. Spain is the highest some years the United States. So we're very proud of our system, and know that a lot of countries look to us to say, What do you do? The registration rate is different. The process is a little different in some countries, so the United States is what we call opt in. Basically, none of us are donors unless we register to be a donor or our family chooses it. So we start with from no, and we opt in some countries have an opt out. Everybody's considered a donor unless they choose not to be, or at the time of their death that their family chooses for them not to be so. It's a little bit flipped.

Stanton Shanedling: So you know, our research gang, like I had mentioned at the top of the show, is is really second to none, and maybe our listening audience would be interested in hearing some of the some of the statistics that you can also read on our on our website. But 86% of patients waiting are in need of a kidney. That has a long history. 46,000 transplants plus were performed in 2023, which I'm sure was perhaps even complicated by the covid pandemic at the time. More than a hundred 1,000 people are waiting for life saving organ transplants. which is an amazing amount of people. Again, we mentioned that 95% of people are in favor of organ donations, but close to 60% are actually registered. So there's a little bit of a, of a, of a, of a disconnect there? Any other things that you know from a statistical or research background that we should be aware of.

SusanML: You know, I'd add one thing, and then Nicole may have some more. You mentioned the 46,000 transplants in 2023, which is really amazing the number of transplants in the country. It just continues to grow. And I think that's what I wanted to reflect on. That's the highest number. And of course, 2022 was the highest ever before that. So it's pretty amazing. And

When Covid hit we couldn't do transplants from patients who had Covid, because we didn't understand it yet. And now we can. And so that's really been helpful, because, of course, I think most of us, at some point or other, have gotten Covid by now. So we need to be able to make the transplant happen.

Stanton Shanedling: Yeah. Sheridan, you've got some insight.

Sheridan Nygard (Health Chatter Research Team): Yeah, unfortunately, I would say, I do have a lot of insight on the process of organ donation, not as a recipient or donor myself, although I am registered as a donor on my license, and I encourage anybody that is willing and able to as well. Just check your license. See if you're registered, and next time you get it renewed. Consider adding yourself if you're not. But my aunt, last summer became very ill, she had graves disease, and she had a thyroid problem, and she's in the hospital. And she ended up aspirating, and her heart just kind of went out, and she still had some brain activity. So they ended up getting her heart working again. But she had very, very little brain activity. And so this was over several months of you know, back and forth about what? What does it mean to be a human being at a certain point? When you've lost all capability to really exist without a ventilator and everything. And ultimately, as a family, we decided and also it was in her will. So I also encourage you to make sure that you know you have all of your I’s dotted and your t's crossed, and you're living well with your wishes. And we determined that it would be best to let her peacefully pass, and we were approached by Life Source to have her be an organ donor, and she had not previously indicated on her license, but she had indicated it in her living will, so that made it a little bit easier, but it also complicated things, not having it directly on her license. So again, I encourage you, if you support this, to put this on your license, and the whole process. It happened over a day after we took her off the ventilator, and I'm sure that the team can speak to this a little bit more, but they don't. Actually they. They had her pass naturally, so they don't actually give you anything to pass, and if you don't pass in a certain timeframe, they actually can't harvest your organs. And so that's why I really wanna emphasize the statistic that less than 1% of donors end up meeting the extremely specific criteria to donate their organs. It's a very, very specific criteria, however, even if all of your organs cannot be harvested, your eye, tissue and other tissues can still be harvested. So this is still going to help so many people with the gift of eyesight. The gift of tissue can help countless people. But really the organs are very difficult to procure from my understanding. And throughout the entire process life source made us feel so much more comfortable. They answered our questions every step of the way. They were next to her bed with us. When we were saying goodbye they gave her, I think, what they call a hero walk as they took her off. Oh, I'm gonna start tearing up as they took her off the ventilator. All of the healthcare workers came into the hallway and just clapped as they took her to go harvest her organs. And it was really really special, you guys? Oh, my gosh! It was really really special. They gave us a heartbeat in a bottle, and so now I still have her heartbeat in a bottle on my shelf. I don't think that we would have been able to comfortably go through the process without life source, really holding our hands every step of the way. My tears were all over the consent forms, and the the lovely lady really just held my hand and gave me boxes of tissues, andit was. It was very difficult, and without  the support and love and kindness of the transplant team we would not have been able to handle, and I really feel that she was honored. If you she. This happened at Hcmc. And there is a flag that they raise for people that donate their organs. And they do a flag raising ceremony. And that was really really special as well. So the way that I felt that Teresa's life was honored second to none. There is no possible way that you could have made that process feel any easier. This, like everything that they did, really made me feel comfortable, and the rest of my family. And it's a really difficult time. Not everybody necessarily agrees with work and donation. So just having that support really made it leaps and bounds better. And even to this day they get you in contact with other families that went through the process. And it's really special to hear from other families that maybe lost a kid or lost somebody else. And it's just really special to have that community. So thank you. Life source. Thank you. All organ donation services. It. It was so difficult. But you guys made it so much better.

Stanton Shanedling: Yeah, thanks for sharing that story. You know. I've come to realize that there's really an emotional intelligence component to this whole process, and certainly it appears as though life source really helps with that, you know 1 one question I have. Is there any information on life expectancy? How many more years does a person get from a particular organ? So, in other words, you know, based on, let's just say, kidneys, how many? How long are people living

Stanton Shanedling: with a donated kidney? Have they? Has it gotten even better? But is there? Are there statistics for that? 

SusanML: Yeah, that is a great question. I don't have those statistics. I don't know if Nicole does. I do know it's long and I'll say I just saw an article. I think the longest heart transplant recipient is going on 35 years, maybe.

Stanton Shanedling: Wow! Great!

SusanML: Kidney recipients that have been out 40 some years. You know. For some it's not as long, but so it really is a lifesaving gift, Clarence. I'm thinking about Kevin Jenkins, and I'm trying to remember when he got his kidney transplant. So I feel like it's 20 years ago.

Clarence jones: I would assume, with that same thing, too. And Kevin is really moving around to talk about transplants. He's a great ambassador.

Stanton Shanedling: Alright. Well, this has been quite an amazing and enlightening show. And I hope that all of you that listen to this show. So first of all, consider registering. If you haven't  then registered prior, you know, for some people you might have even forgotten if you are registered. So you can also check that too, you know for many people it's right on your, on your license, your driver's license that you that you carry but last thoughts, Susan and Nicole.

SusanML: Well, my closing thought is just my Nicole put it in the chat, but I just wanna say my just graded heartfelt gratitude for sharing Sheridan and her aunt, and for sharing so beautifully. Her story. And those gifts. So thank you so much, Sheridan.

Nicole:  Yeah, certainly! I Echo that. Sheridan, your synopsis of your experience with your aunt and life source is really one of the reasons why. It's so important that people understand. The beauty of the work that we do, and the : the gift that people are able to give, and saving other people's lives by registering, to donate, to be to be an organ donor. Our donation liaisons. I just want to give them a shout out, they are amazing at what they do. The number of things that they navigate with families and our hospital partners is top notch. And so I'm so happy to hear, Sharon, that you had that experience with our team members and that your aunt was able to give the gift of life. So thank you.

Stanton Shanedling: Last, Thoughts, Barry.

Barry: I think Susan and Nicole just really covered the bases on it, and, you know, shared. And also you know, that sharing is so helpful that you know it really brings a human face  to the experience, and oftentimes because that emotional feeling is what often makes this so meaningful as opposed to just a you know, on your driver's license. When you hear the actual story, and then on the back end obviously it is, you know, her aunt did a lot to extend people's lives and improve their quality of life. And so it's just like a blessing that you can, you know, pass on to paying it forward, passing it on to others. So Susan and Nicole, thank you so much.

Clarence jones: One of the first things I said when I started the program was that this was one of the best community organizations I've ever worked with. I don't think that story was just an example of how great it is to work with live sources and with Susan and Nicole. So for those that are struggling, for those that are concerned, for those that are interested. This is our organization that will take care in terms of sharing with you appropriate and accurate information about the process.

Sheridan Nygard: Can I also just say, thank you to the organ donation team? Without you guys, there wouldn't be the beauty in the pain of losing my aunt, knowing that somebody else out there is getting the gift of seeing a beautiful sunset, or seeing their granddaughter's face, or their mother's face, or you know just some of the the hardships in the world, and that my aunt in her, in her last moments, could pass that on to another human being is really the most beautiful thing I could possibly think of. So really, without you guys, that wouldn't be possible. Thank you so much for letting me share my story, too. And I just wanna say also, thank you to my Aunt Teresa for being willing to donate.

Stanton Shanedling: You know, one thing that I've come to realize about your story shared, and then, obviously, the background that both Nicole and Susan have provided. Here is in your case shared. And this is a story, a life changing story that you will carry with you the rest of your life. And you know, it's not just a, you know. Easy, come, easy, go. These are things that really stick with us as humans. We forge ahead and hopefully you know, for people who have gone through it one way or the other. Hopefully, organizations like life source help with coping going forward, which is an important component to all of this Susan and Nicole. I Ca, you know from all of us at health chatter. We can't thank you enough for the insights that you have provided us today, and also. most importantly. the work that you do. So thank you for being on health chatter with us. you know, for our listening audience we have. First of all, you can listen to the show, but also on our website, you'll be able to. Actually, if you'd like to. You can read the transcript of the show. If that's more to your liking, check that out. The show will be available to everybody in about a week. Shows coming up on loneliness and stress. So stay tuned for those exciting shows. So for our listed audience, all of you keep health chatting away.