Traveling & Health

Stanton Shanedling: Good morning, everybody in Health Chatter world! Welcome to today's show. We’re going to be talking about traveling and health: What are the things you need to keep in mind when traveling, and also the benefits of travel on our health? There are some benefits and maybe not so much for others, so we’ll discuss all of that. We’ve got a great crew: Maddy Levine Wolf, Erin Collins, Diondra Howard, Matthew Campbell, and Sheridan Nygard are all behind the scenes making the show run smoothly. Dr. Barry Baines is our medical advisor, providing insight from a health perspective. We're also joined by Clarence Jones, my co-host, with whom I do a lot of chatting on and off-air. It's been a pleasure working together. Thanks to everyone involved!

Stanton Shanedling: Our sponsor for today’s show is Human Partnership, a great community health organization doing wonderful things in the community. Check them out at humanpartnership.org, and check out our website at healthchatterpodcast.com. We’d love to hear from you, so feel free to leave questions, reviews, and ideas.

Stanton Shanedling: Today's topic is health and travel. It’s interesting because during the height of the COVID pandemic, there were travel implications regarding health, particularly with COVID. We had to be extra mindful about health precautions while traveling. But beyond that, travel can have various effects on your health. We’ll dive into that today.

Stanton Shanedling: Everyone here has traveled, whether domestically or internationally. When you think about travel, one of the first things that comes to mind is packing. Barry, I’d love to hear from you. When you’re getting ready to travel, what health-related things do you keep in mind?

Barry Baines: For me, the first thing I think about is whether I’m traveling domestically or overseas. There are some things that apply to both, but when you’re traveling internationally, especially to a developing country, immunizations are top of mind. In the Twin Cities area, we have international travel clinics that can help you figure out what vaccines you might need before heading abroad. You don’t want to get to your destination and realize you're missing crucial immunizations.

Stanton Shanedling: Right, and during COVID, there was even more focus on vaccination. It’s not just about getting vaccinated but also having proof. It was heightened during COVID, with cards verifying vaccinations, but for other vaccines, we often don't carry that type of proof with us.

Barry Baines: There are apps for tracking immunizations now. One, called Docket, is a good resource. It keeps a record of all your vaccinations, which are often reported to the health system. This can be a handy way to have proof on your phone.

Barry Baines: In addition to vaccines, if you're on medications, make sure to bring enough for the whole trip. Don’t pack them in checked luggage; keep them with you in your carry-on. Medications are important, whether traveling internationally or domestically, because travel can affect your physical and mental health.

Barry Baines: Travel can be stressful, particularly when dealing with airports and security. A simple tip when traveling abroad is to make a copy of your passport and keep it separate from your original. That way, if you lose it, you can easily replace it with the help of the embassy.

Stanton Shanedling: That’s a great tip. Speaking of medications, Barry, what do you recommend for people who need to take their medication at specific times but are crossing multiple time zones?

Barry Baines: Honestly, it’s tough. When traveling across time zones, it’s best to stick to your regular schedule if possible. But it’s important to be flexible. If you’re off by a few hours here and there, it usually won’t cause a major issue. However, if you have a complicated medication schedule, I’d recommend talking to your healthcare provider before traveling to create a plan that works for you.

Stanton Shanedling: That’s great advice. Another tip: I had an experience recently where I left my phone at home before heading to the airport. It’s incredible how reliant we are on our devices. One thing I highly recommend is keeping a card in your wallet with a few important phone numbers written on it. That way, if you lose your phone, you can still contact people and navigate any situations that come up.

Stanton Shanedling: For example, if you find yourself in the airport without your phone, you can go to the information booth, which will have a regular phone you can use to reach someone. It’s a small thing, but it can make a big difference in a pinch!

Clarence: Yeah, well, let's talk about the phone situation that recently happened to me.

Clarence: I was traveling, and I recognized it as I had gone through the gates.

Stanton Shanedling: Yeah.

Clarence: Yeah, my wife actually got a ticket trying to get my phone to the information desk. So I appreciate that. I do appreciate those tips.

Stanton Shanedling: Yeah.

Clarence: Because it was stressful, and I thought I'd have to answer something the next day. But, you know, after listening to you, I realized that’s in the Stone Age when it comes to thinking about medicines and preparation. Now, I'll immediately go and get my toothbrush, my toothpaste, make sure I’ve got some deodorant.

Clarence: You know, all those kinds of things, the basic stuff.

Clarence: I'll take my meds, and...

Clarence: Unfortunately, or fortunately, I have my own way of doing my scheduling, which may or may not be helpful to anybody, but for myself, I think as long as I'm doing it, I'm doing it. You know what I mean?

Clarence: But I do appreciate the fact that you talked about planning because we do get into those situations where, if we don’t think about what we’re doing or where we’re going, or the circumstances, because there's not a CVS on every corner.

Clarence: You know, so you have to really think about that. And even though we're traveling domestically or you're traveling domestically and not internationally, I still think it’s important. Based on what you're saying, I'm going to do it from now on. Thank you, Barry, for encouraging me.

Barry Baines: You’re welcome.

Clarence: Better job of planning.

Barry Baines: Yeah. And the thing is, there is the idea of having a travel checklist.There’s a book that was written called The Checklist Manifesto. Okay?Actually, it was written by Atul Gawande, who wrote Being Mortal. I think many of you know, hopefully our listeners have. That’s a fantastic book to be reading as well. But the point is, having a checklist is just to help you not forget anything. And you know, the reality is the airline pilots that fly our planes—they know how to fly the planes, but before they do anything, they have to go through this exhaustive checklist.Surgeons in operating rooms have to go through a checklist before they operate so that...You know, "Is the left leg, not the right leg?" Yeah, we... I mean, it’s just one of those things so you don’t forget. And having that checklist makes it very, very easy. And you could always add to it. Usually, you can’t take things off those checklists because our lives tend to get more complicated over time. But having that checklist is just a great way to know. Like I said, pack it. You know, you also want to pack your toothbrush and toothpaste Yeah, exactly, as well as...

Stanton Shanedling: You know, it's funny. When I travel, I also...

Stanton Shanedling: I put on a different set of glasses as well. It’s one thing to think about the medications that you might normally take. You need those, okay. But then you also start thinking about things that you might need.

Stanton Shanedling: So, for instance, you know, "What if I get an upset stomach?" You know, because of, you know, differences in food or water? What if I have a hard time?

Stanton Shanedling: What if I’m having a hard time sleeping?

Stanton Shanedling: You know, all these kinds of things. There are certain things you can take, you know. Even, you know, I take like Tums with me in case I get an upset stomach or something, you know. So at least I have something. Pepto Bismol, Band-Aids...

Stanton Shanedling: You know, which sounds like...

Stanton Shanedling: You know, simple little things, but you know, you get a cut and you’re like, "Oh my God, I’m in the middle of nowhere! Where can I get a simple Band-Aid?" Well, okay, keep those in your... in your doc kit or your travel bag.

Stanton Shanedling: But simple little things that you don’t necessarily think of all the time. Like, for instance, I carry Band-Aids in my wallet. That’s because I have grandkids, you know. Everywhere they go, they’re falling down and getting a scratch here or there, or whatever.

Clarence: I hear you. You know what’s funny? I think that’s great because someone mentioned a little bit earlier, I remember traveling overseas.

Clarence: And I walked out of the hotel, and I saw people I knew who they were.

Clarence: But I couldn’t respond to them. It was like I had always heard of this thing called Jet Lag, and I had been traveling back and forth. I had never experienced that.

Stanton Shanedling: Yeah.

Clarence: No, I... So jet lag was not a part of my packing plan. But I do think you're right—you do need to think about what if you get into those kinds of situations. What can you do?

Stanton Shanedling: Or like, if you're going on a plane—again, let’s just talk overseas for a second—what’s going to help you sleep? Literally sleep, you know? Some people will put on a mask or some people will have noise-canceling earphones, you know, so they don’t hear any noise around them when they’re trying to get some sleep.

Stanton Shanedling: So the issue is, or the important point to take away from this is, know yourself before you go. And, Barry, to your point, a little bit of a checklist above and beyond what you normally would take with you, you know, medications, etc., that can help in particular situations.

Stanton Shanedling: I can reflect on one thing. I went to a conference once out in Denver, and...

Stanton Shanedling: God, I got food poisoning. I remember walking into a pharmacy there and I said to the pharmacist, "I think I have food poisoning," and his response to me was...

Stanton Shanedling: "If you think you have food poisoning, you do."

Clarence: And...

Stanton Shanedling: And so, it’s like knowing quickly what to do in order to get assistance when these kinds of things happen to you that you don’t normally experience, maybe when you’re at home. So, I want to switch gears a little bit about the pros and cons of traveling and our health.

Stanton Shanedling: Okay? So, for all of us, you know, Maddie, Aaron, you can chime in too because I know you guys have traveled.

Stanton Shanedling: What are some of the pros and cons that you've experienced? Clarence, you can start us out on that. What do you think the pros are for traveling?

Clarence: Well, yeah.

Clarence: That’s a really good question, Stan.

Clarence: Let me think about that a little bit.

Stanton Shanedling: Alright. So, for me, you know what it is. It’s like, what are you traveling for?

Stanton Shanedling: What’s the purpose of your traveling? Is it for personal reasons, like vacation, or what have you? Or is it business-related? And it creates, at least for me, a different psyche in my head.

Stanton Shanedling: It’s like, "Okay, I’m going on this particular trip, or wherever it is, to truly relax, do something different," etc. Whereas business-related travel puts you in a completely different way. "Oh my God, do I have to give a presentation?" It puts you in a different kind of mindset.

Clarence: Yeah, let me... Now that I’ve recaptured my thoughts here...

Stanton Shanedling: Okay, go ahead.

Clarence: I think the whole idea for me, the pros of traveling, really is life experiences. It helps me to have a deeper appreciation of... You know, many times where I’m at. It gives me a chance to look at other things. But I do think it’s important to travel. I think so many times, people have a worldview that’s only 10 square blocks or 5 miles. And with that kind of... Oh, I shouldn’t call it a distorted perception, but with that kind of limited perception, it can cause you to misread so many things that are going on around you.

Clarence: So, I’ve always been a strong advocate that young kids should travel to foreign countries or different places when they’re 8, 9, 10, and in some cases stay there 2 or 3 weeks or more for them to really appreciate what they have.

Stanton Shanedling: Yeah.

Clarence: So that would be my restored comment about the pros of traveling.

Stanton Shanedling: Barry, what about you? The pros and cons that you have run into?

Barry Baines: Yeah, I think the biggest pro, for you know, for this is that being in a new setting really helps you to see things in a different way. It's very stimulating for the brain from a creative perspective. You know, seeing new scenery. And, you know, certainly, I'll talk about traveling domestically here. There are parts of our country and our state. It's not like, you know, travel has to always mean going on a plane, but very often, in particular, when we connect with nature. And we have lots of natural stupendous, awesome things, you know, in our parks and rivers and mountains, and you know, in this country, and it really is very stimulating to the brain and helps you think about things differently. It's very restorative. So, like, you know, if you're stressed out, sometimes that break helps. I think, to build on Clarence's piece, it helps expand your worldview, you know, as you get out of your neighborhood. And that, to me, always ranks at the top of the list because oftentimes when you travel, you have new experiences, even experiences that are challenging. Sort of being able to solve problems in a new setting just expands your brain's ability. And so for me, that's always been the number one thing, how, you know, it really gets your brain going, which ultimately results in more energy to do things and more productivity in general.

Stanton Shanedling: You know, I can relate to that. I recently went on a road trip with my pooch, and we went to a couple of places. I'll just tell you two of them. One was in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, which was the original site of nuclear science. It's the Manhattan project. And then the other site that we went to was a battle at Fredericksburg. And when you just stand there, and you just reflect for just a moment or two what has transpired on the spot that you're standing, it really takes you to a different place in your head. And you can't do that just, you know, from your home. Another place was the flight 93 memorial site where the plane crashed in Pennsylvania. You stand there and you realize, oh my God, what has happened or what happened here. Those are healthy thoughts to have, and you realize that there are sometimes things in your life that are much, much bigger than you. And here it happened. So there are some real advantages to doing those types of things. On the other side of the equation, for some people, traveling is incredibly stressful. I'll give you a story on that one. Just last week, I picked my sister and brother-in-law up. They were flying back from Hartford, Connecticut, and their plane was delayed three hours. They were on the plane for an hour. They were supposed to have gotten home, you know, whatever, and the logistics of it all, when you think about people who are aging especially, becomes much, much more difficult to navigate logistics like, for instance, in airports. My sister, when I picked them up at the airport, she’s almost the first thing she said to me was this: "I'm done flying." I'm done flying. It's such a pain in the you-know-where, she said. It's so much easier to just throw a suitcase in the back of your car and go. Just go, or wherever. So, ease of travel can be, on one side, a pro, and on the other side a con. Obviously, plane travel gets you there theoretically faster, but you know, what do you have to do to get through all the logistics of it all?

One thing that I've noticed is there are certain places in the world that have health advisories. And if you're planning on traveling to some of these places, it's definitely worthwhile to check out where these health advisories are. If you're flying, typically, the airlines will have them on your app, on your phone, if you happen to have your phone with you at the time. Or you can check them out, you know, the Centers for Disease Control keeps an update on health advisories around the world that are going on. There are also upticks, from time to time, in infectious diseases. We're starting to see that in the United States with Covid again, we're running into the, I guess, the higher Covid season, and we're going to be running into the flu season. When you travel, you're potentially at a higher risk. There's also cruise ships, which also create some things like I ran into. I personally got Covid when I was on a cruise in Alaska, and it's really interesting because, you know, when you're on a cruise ship, they have their own medical department, and the whole nine yards, and people aren't necessarily aware of that. But they do have that, and it's at your disposal if you need it. In my case, I did need it.

Maddy Levine-Wolf: Yeah, I just would echo what Clarence and Barry said about the pros for traveling, quote-unquote. For me, it's just again, getting outside of my usual routine but also connecting with new cultures and having new and different experiences from my usual ones. I think that ability to step outside of your comfort zone is really important. And yeah, I mean, I think it's just such a good opportunity to see the world, and like Barry and Clarence said, to expand your worldview, and in that, I really don't see a negative. Obviously, sometimes with logistics and health concerns, or whatever it may be, there are cons, I guess you could say, but for me, I think in my tax bracket at the moment, the only difficulty is affording to travel. That's something that I'm constantly thinking about. So that is definitely a challenge for me right now. But, you know, there are ways where you can travel that is more affordable than, you know, a $2,000 plane ticket somewhere. So, I think sometimes when we think about travel, we think of, like, going around the world or something, when really, like, I just went to Starved Rock, which is a State Park in Illinois, a couple of weekends ago. We drove an hour and a half outside the city of Chicago, and it was beautiful, you know. So, I mean, that's not the same as going to Paris, obviously, but you don't necessarily have to break the bank just to get outside your comfort zone and things like that. So yeah, those are some of my thoughts.

Clarence: You know, what's interesting, though, as you were talking, I think about the fact is, sometimes we travel for relaxation, and we wind up coming back more tired than when we left. And I think there has to be some tips, you know, based on again, based on what it is. I mean, if it's business, that might make a lot of sense, but I think there's got to be some tips on what we can do to make sure that our time spent relaxing could be more relaxing versus, you know, feeling like we have to do everything, you know, that's on the brochure. So, that was my thought, is that sometimes when we travel, we travel for relaxation, but we don't necessarily plan for relaxation. We plan to do activities, and we don't get to the most important thing is why we’re really doing what we're doing.

Stanton Shanedling: Yeah, that's a good point, you know, and relaxation for some is different. You know, for some people, relaxation means throw me on a beach and leave me alone. You know, put me under an umbrella, and I want to listen to the waves coming in. For other people, that's the most boring thing in the world, and they can't stand it, and they'd rather go, you know, walking on the boardwalk next to the ocean. It's a different scenery, but it's a different form of relaxation for some people.

Clarence: But, you know, for some people, I want to read a book by a pool. For other people, that's all I do at home. I read, so I don't want to read. Now, I want to go to the museum, or I want to go eat somewhere that's different.

Stanton Shanedling: But, you know, for some people, I think you’ve got to know who you're traveling with. You know, and I think sometimes we're forced to travel with people that, no matter what we do, we're not going to enjoy it. You know, just not because you don't enjoy them, it's just that we have different interests. You know, if I'm going someplace, I don't want to go someplace where I have to shop. I don't want to go to all the different vendors and shop. I mean, that would drive me crazy. I want to go to the beach a little bit, but I don't want you to think I’m a drag, because I don’t want to go with you down to these other things. You know what I mean? So, you’ve got to plan things and say, "Okay, look, this is what we're going to do. This is my personality. This is my style. That's your personality, that's your style." We can agree on some things, but can we also have our individual space to enjoy this time together? You know, sometimes you go places with people, and they want to continuously talk to you. You know, because we never have a chance to talk. Well, you know, this is not the place where I want to be talking to you all the time. It's not that you don't love them. You know what I'm saying, but it’s true. It’s like, can I rest?

Stanton Shanedling: Yeah, I think when you travel, you define it gives you the opportunity to define space differently and experience things differently. So, okay honey, you want to go shopping down 5th Avenue in New York? Great. You go ahead, I'm going to go to the Museum of Art. So it's just a different perspective. And you say, "Okay, well, wait, you know. Why don’t we do a little bit of both?" There’s balance that can be done as well. Or alone time, you know, is absolutely okay as well.

Clarence: Barry, what are you thinking? I love seeing Dr. Barry laughing back there. What's up, Dr. Barry?

Barry Baines: Well, no, because, you know, once you're in a different environment, okay? It changes things. My experience has been, when I travel to a new environment, you sort of need to compromise more. You become more tolerable, you know? Tolerance increases, patience increases, hopefully, and acceptance of things. So, you know, the idea that, you know, it's perfectly okay for someone to go shopping on 5th Avenue and someone else to go to the Museum of Modern Art. Hey, you know, I'll meet you here in an hour and a half. So, you know, negotiating time and space like that helps you see the people you're traveling with in a more appreciative way, but also understanding that we all have our limitations, and we do want our space. Somehow, I’ve always found that being in a different environment breaks us out of the inflexible ways we act when we're at home and in comfortable surroundings. When you're in a place you don't know, it helps you loosen up and even have conversations about things like that. It allows you to do things differently. I think that's one of the other positive payoffs of traveling.

Stanton Shanedling: I’ve realized that when I travel, you do have to have a level of flexibility. So, it’s one thing what you've planned. "Jeez, we really want to go here, here, here." And then, well, it turns out all those places are outside, and it’s pouring rain for three days in a row. So now what? For some people, that really puts them in a tizzy. It's like, "Oh my God! Get out the travel book, let’s see what we do."

Clarence: Or, "Why did you pick this week? You know, we should have done it next week."

Stanton Shanedling: Yeah, well. You know, the other thing too is what you crave. For instance, when I go to New York City, I crave having a good pastrami sandwich or a good bagel. I don’t need it every day, but it’s something I’ve got to make sure I do when I'm there. So, eating differently is another thing people can look into for some fun.

Barry Baines: Yeah, they can affect your health, so you’ve got to be careful about that. You know, you've got to watch it. One other thing I wanted to bring up is mobility. So, especially for people getting closer to retirement or already retired, when you ask them what they want to do, travel is usually on their list. But most of them don't prepare for it. "We’re going hiking in the mountains of Portugal." "Really? Have you done any exercises?" Have you prepared for a five-mile walk? The answer is no, not a problem when we get there. Sure enough, when they get there, they go on that hike and for the next three days they can barely move. Knowing your age and limitations and prepping ahead of time is important.

Stanton Shanedling: When I come back from traveling, I don’t know about you, but I always appreciate getting home, no matter how fun it was, how relaxing, how beautiful. There is something comforting about getting home, if for no other reason than your own bed.

Stanton Shanedling: One other thing I wanted to bring up is CPAP machines. For people experiencing sleep apnea, if you’re traveling, you should know that a CPAP is not considered a carry-on. You can take it in a bag in addition to your regular carry-on because it's considered a medical device. You don’t want to pack it in your suitcase because God knows where it will end up, just like your medication. It’s something you carry with you.

Barry Baines: I just want to add one quick thing about CPAP machines because my sister-in-law was just in town. You have to empty out the water bottles before you get on the plane, and she was asking where to get distilled water when she arrived. You can use filtered water for a few days, but if you’ll be gone longer, it's something to add to your checklist.

Stanton Shanedling: The other thing is electrical outlets. When you travel overseas, the outlets are different from ours. Make sure you bring the proper adapters and cords for charging phones and devices. These little things become a checklist.

Stanton Shanedling: So the bottom line is travel, overall, is experiential. It can be healthy for some, but for others, it can be more stressful. As you acquire health issues, you have to keep them in mind when traveling. When you're younger, you just pack your bag and go. As you get older and have more medical issues, you need to be more cognizant.

Barry Baines: When you add up all the pros and cons, I think the positives still outweigh the negatives. When you travel, for many of the things we’ve talked about, the negatives can be lessened with proper planning, which makes the whole experience more positive. You can add positives or take away negatives, and the result is a better experience. I’d say do the planning, and you’ll enjoy your trip more. Traveling has lots of benefits, and you just need to be more deliberate with the planning.

Clarence: Yeah, I agree. Planning comes to the top of my mind. Not only do you need to plan the material things, but also check in with your relationships. "What do you like? This is what I like. What do you want?" That way, no one gets mad halfway through the trip. One miscue can ruin the whole thing. Checking in and asking simple questions at the beginning will make the trip more enjoyable and relaxing.

Stanton Shanedling: I'm gonna say my last thing. There are many, many resources out there on traveling. There's a book called Atlas Obscura, which is an atlas of different places from around the world that you might not even think about going to, but are quite special. There's also, I believe, it's called Gastro Obscura, which features different places around the world with great restaurants that you might want to check out.

And the last thing I'm going to say is that, you know, Barry and Clarence and I, we grew up in a world where we had a hardcore map in our hands. A lot of those things are available now on a phone, and that creates some angst for people. On an app, for instance, on a phone, you can't necessarily see the full picture of where you're going versus a little portion of a place. Some people can't navigate using the technology that's available. So again, these are types of things to keep in mind when you travel.

Bottom line is: is it good for you? Yeah, it's good for you. It causes your brain to think about different things, and that's really good.

Stanton Shanedling: Maddie, thoughts? Last thoughts?

Maddy Levine-Wolf: Not really. I mean, just underscoring what everyone else has said. I have a trip to Europe coming up in like six weeks, so these are great tips and great things to think about. The timing is good for me. But yeah, I mean, to me, I've always just grown up with—I feel like wanting to travel is a value in some ways. It doesn't interest everyone, and that's totally okay. I think for me, my parents always instilled in us that traveling is a really important way to, like we were saying earlier, expand your worldview. So you're not stuck in your own, you know, echo chamber of thoughts and experiences and perspectives. So I think that's something that motivates me to continue traveling, either, you know, relatively locally or to a totally different culture.

Stanton Shanedling: And you know, there are different types of places to go to. You can travel to a national park, which is a completely different story, a different type of trip than going to New York City, where you're walking down 5th Avenue. Okay, it's a different type of hike. And you have to make those assessments on what you want to do when you want to do them.

Maddy Levine-Wolf: And I have to believe that there is some type of traveling for everyone. You know, some people prefer national parks and connecting with nature, some people prefer, you know, the 5th Avenue trip to New York, some people prefer going international, some people prefer a little bit of everything. But I think there are so many different options. Travel can mean so many different things that I think there's a piece of it that could resonate with any type of person.

Stanton Shanedling: If you are an extrovert, it dictates certain things. If you are an introvert, it dictates certain things, and it dictates different things when you're in different cultures. But I hope everybody keeps health chatting away. We've got a great show coming up next on Indian health with the new Director of Indian Health from the Minnesota Department of Health. Until then, keep health chatting away.